Curse

Phaern Majes · Apr 17, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Ya seeing how most people seem to not have noticed. Congrats.

Riceboi · Apr 17, 2006, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by noice1

I want every auction on ebay for Guild Wars gold closed and the ebay accounts banned permanently. If Anet wants to wield a ban stick, why not Ebay? They are allowing this crap to continue. I say again, I thought this crap was taken care of a few MMORPG generations ago?

Ebay won't close an auction unless the seller is a scammer or if it is illegal. Even though selling ingame items is against Anet's EULA, it has NOTHING to do with Ebay. Ebay and Anet/NCSoft have no direct business realtionship, therefore what are these gaming companies going to use as leverage for "the pressure" on Ebay? Ebay will just shrug them off, as ebay is making a decent amount of money from all these in-game item auctions.

VGJustice · Apr 17, 2006, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Well done ricebox.

Also, leprekan, I saw how much you helped, and you were the ONLY one doing so. You have my respect, good sir. /bow

AeroLion · Apr 17, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Congrats, Ricebox. Glad everything worked out for you.

Also want to echo VGJustice and give props to leprekan as well.

hidden_agenda · Apr 17, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stabber

Reason #2 is more serious, and I think a cartel of MMO(RP)G companies can easily band together and put some collective pressure on Ebay to get their act together. I get the impression from my friends who play WoW that this Ebaying problem is many times worse there. Surely NCSoft and Blizzard can find a common interest in stopping these goldfarmers!

LOL...

I almost fell off of my chair laughing when I read this.

Think about this for a second...

1) EULA is not an agreement between the user and the provider of the software / service. Ebay is neither.

2) Ebay makes 2-5% off of transactions through its sites. At last count Sony Online Entertainment estimate that the online virtual currency market to be ~$150 million per year from EverQuest ALONE. Meaning that by doing NOTHING, Ebay makes at least $3 milllion per year off of EverQuest.

Assuming similar figures for WoW, Guild Wars, and other MMORPGs, we're talking about a $10 million per year cash cow for Ebay to reward their doing NOTHING.

3) Guild Wars is probably the best selling product from NCSoft, it has sold some 1+ million copies, Generating ~$50 million. Ebay is a multi-billion company, which can probably buy NCSoft without blinking an eye.

Sorry, but I think unless people come up with a way that shows Ebay a negative to this whole thing, they'll go ahead and ignore the situation.

coldplay · Apr 17, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricebox

Hi everyone! Thanks for participating in this thread, my Deepest thanks goes to you all! Thank you very much!

Anet has finally Unban my account!

This is the last answer i got from their Automated Support Team!

Response (GM Dynamite) 04/16/2006 05:32 PM
Hello,

Thank you for contact Guild Wars Support.
Upon further review of the issue, it appears that your account was blocked in error. Your account is now released and you should be able to log in to Guild Wars. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Take care,
The Guild Wars Support Team

>> Same with Leprekan eh... hehehe! see ya guys! and thanks!

Grats to you , Ricebox.

I choose the wrong side to believe and I am happy about I was wrong.

Now, the question is can we sue A-net when they made false action or we lost the right to sue when we start to receive their service(game play)

HawkofStorms · Apr 17, 2006, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Why would you want to sue A.net? Seriously, I have a lot of experience with the legal system, and you would have no grounds to do that. Besides, they made a mistake, admitted it, and apologized for it.
Sometimes the American legal system does make me wonder. We are a sue happy culture (I'm glad I don't plan on dirtying my hands with that sort of stuff when I go into law).

Anyway, congrats Ricebox. I had doubted you when you first made your post, but it just goes to show that everybody (a.net in this case) can make a mistake.

Thom · Apr 17, 2006, 07:35 AM // 07:35

I'm guessing that these bans come as a result of data mining. If you farm the same areas at the same time as your standard violater, you will likely be flagged. If you happen to trade with a ring of violaters on multiple occasions, you have a good chance of being banned with that group. If an IP places you on a network with a group of violators (at school or something), that could flag you.

If Anet is tracking an item or item type which is being sold on ebay, that could be the cause of the mysterious instant bans.

While this is all speculation, it isn't suprising that A-net makes mistakes when they are hunting for multiple account networks designed to hide connections. Overall Anet does a good job of keeping abuse to a minimum and successful data mining probably plays a big role.

Griff Mon · Apr 17, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Jeez, all A-Net has to do is go over to Drok's and hang out in the international district. The banhammer would be a bloody stump by the time they got done with it.

People (real ones, not farming bots) are getting mad saying stuff that I won't repeat, but the selling messages fly by so fast, you can't even read it, even if you could speak the language.

Riceboi · Apr 17, 2006, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

LOL...

I almost fell off of my chair laughing when I read this.

Think about this for a second...

1) EULA is not an agreement between the user and the provider of the software / service. Ebay is neither.

2) Ebay makes 2-5% off of transactions through its sites. At last count Sony Online Entertainment estimate that the online virtual currency market to be ~$150 million per year from EverQuest ALONE. Meaning that by doing NOTHING, Ebay makes at least $3 milllion per year off of EverQuest.

Assuming similar figures for WoW, Guild Wars, and other MMORPGs, we're talking about a $10 million per year cash cow for Ebay to reward their doing NOTHING.

3) Guild Wars is probably the best selling product from NCSoft, it has sold some 1+ million copies, Generating ~$50 million. Ebay is a multi-billion company, which can probably buy NCSoft without blinking an eye.

Sorry, but I think unless people come up with a way that shows Ebay a negative to this whole thing, they'll go ahead and ignore the situation.

Pretty much what I was hinting at up above! I'm loving number 3, go eBay! LOL

Quote:Riceboi
Ebay won't close an auction unless the seller is a scammer or if it is illegal. Even though selling ingame items is against Anet's EULA, it has NOTHING to do with Ebay. Ebay and Anet/NCSoft have no direct business realtionship, therefore what are these gaming companies going to use as leverage for "the pressure" on Ebay? Ebay will just shrug them off, as ebay is making a decent amount of money from all these in-game item auctions.

dansamy · Apr 17, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Actually eBay and Anet could team up to prevent selling of in-game items on eBay. Currently Microsoft, Sony, Louis Vuitton, etc all have means whereby they can close auctions that violate their copyrights or trademarks. I had a modded Xbox auction to be closed due to that. (Microsoft got a little mad that we put a huge HDD and a mod chip on their product. Not like it's hard to mod those suckers.)

jackie · Apr 17, 2006, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Congratz.

But give Anet a break. They are working hard for kicking scammers & exploiters arses. Everyone makes mistakes sooner or later.

Stabber · Apr 17, 2006, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

LOL...

[...]

Sorry, but I think unless people come up with a way that shows Ebay a negative to this whole thing, they'll go ahead and ignore the situation.

Yes, I suppose it is a silly laughing matter that the transactions that Ebay is profiting from are possibly illegal.

I am sure if Anet ever sues Ebay (and they won't because there are fine technological means of stopping it), Ebay will simply laugh in their face and go about their business.

Laws? LOL!

Riceboi · Apr 17, 2006, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

Actually eBay and Anet could team up to prevent selling of in-game items on eBay. Currently Microsoft, Sony, Louis Vuitton, etc all have means whereby they can close auctions that violate their copyrights or trademarks. I had a modded Xbox auction to be closed due to that. (Microsoft got a little mad that we put a huge HDD and a mod chip on their product. Not like it's hard to mod those suckers.)

lol

All those companies you mentioned are so many times bigger than Anet will ever be! It's comparing apples to oranges! Ebay wants their business!

Riceboi · Apr 17, 2006, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stabber

Yes, I suppose it is a silly laughing matter that the transactions that Ebay is profiting from are possibly illegal.

I am sure if Anet ever sues Ebay (and they won't because there are fine technological means of stopping it), Ebay will simply laugh in their face and go about their business.

Laws? LOL!

When you say illegal transactions I hope you're not refering to breaking the Anet EULA because I just lol'ed at you!

"Officer arrest that man he broke the Guild Wars EULA!"

Stabber · Apr 17, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riceboi

When you say illegal transactions I hope you're not refering to breaking the Anet EULA because I just lol'ed at you!

The EULA isn't necessarily all that's broken (and read back a dozen comments to see what I think of EULAs). I can easily imagine these transactions involving nefarious slumlords breaking various human rights laws, or international trade laws, or making use of software cracks that are violations of the DMCA (even though I don't necessarily believe that cracking software should be a crime or that the DMCA is a good law).

I am sure if Anet or Blizzard or Sony really cared, a team of lawyers could find several potential charges. The practice of goldfarming isn't exactly all above the table, and there have been lawsuits hung on far flimsier pretenses. If $3 million is all that these trades are worth to Ebay, then just the threat of massive legal expenses could give them pause.

Note that I am not saying that Anet should waste their time looking for a legal solution. A cartel of MMOG companies could simply raise a huge stink about Ebay in the public sphere, tarnishing their brand -- think how Nike has become permanently associated with sweatshop labor. Would Ebay like that?

(And there are an endless variety of technological measures that I'm not even mentioning.)

Incidentally, I think it is simply a matter of time before hard laws are written about virtual property. We are not at the critical point yet, but we are close.

Ricebox · Apr 17, 2006, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Well i gotta hand it to Leprekan, without his insights and past experiences, i might have lost hope due to posts given by other ppl telling me that i should quit or stop whining! LoL! Well thanks alot Leprekan! I owe you big time!

This should serve as a prime example on how to be a good online gamer! Online Gaming may never simulate reality, however i believe through online gaming, our true personalities, Social being and Attitude can be reflected effectively here! It can tell you what kind of people you are dealing with just like in the real world!

About the people who doubted me, it was okie, no hard feelings! I had already expected there would be people flaming me if i posted my problems! But im happy I did, at least I was able to find out that Im not the only person who has experienced the same problem... I Think this thread can help anyone who's a victim of Error in Banning! That is if you're not guilty at all...

To botters, scammers and the like, this thread is also for you, so you could stop what you're doing now as you could see how strict Anet is and how well they are doing their job! I may have been disappointed, but looking at the bright side! Anet was just doing their Job, and its pretty good! Good Job Anet! Keep it up!

Riceboi · Apr 17, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stabber

The EULA isn't necessarily all that's broken (and read back a dozen comments to see what I think of EULAs). I can easily imagine these transactions involving nefarious slumlords breaking various human rights laws, or international trade laws, or making use of software cracks that are violations of the DMCA (even though I don't necessarily believe that cracking software should be a crime or that the DMCA is a good law).

I am sure if Anet or Blizzard or Sony really cared, a team of lawyers could find several potential charges. The practice of goldfarming isn't exactly all above the table, and there have been lawsuits hung on far flimsier pretenses. If $3 million is all that these trades are worth to Ebay, then just the threat of massive legal expenses could give them pause.

Note that I am not saying that Anet should waste their time looking for a legal solution. A cartel of MMOG companies could simply raise a huge stink about Ebay in the public sphere, tarnishing their brand -- think how Nike has become permanently associated with sweatshop labor. Would Ebay like that?

(And there are an endless variety of technological measures that I'm not even mentioning.)

Incidentally, I think it is simply a matter of time before hard laws are written about virtual property. We are not at the critical point yet, but we are close.

There is a possibility that the out of country online farmer shops are breaking human right laws, but we don't know that. Obviously USA laws are different from other countries. Also the argument that they are paid so little and have to work long hours is not breaking the laws in their country (in USA of course it is). The economy is different over there.

I do agree with you that if gaming companies tried hard enough, they could probably sue ebay over these auctions. I also agree it's only a matter of time before there will be real laws over virtual property. Once those laws are passed then ebay will close all the online gaming auctions in a blink of an eye.

Big_Iron · Apr 17, 2006, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

Well done ricebox.

Also, leprekan, I saw how much you helped, and you were the ONLY one doing so. You have my respect, good sir. /bow

Same here. leprekan was one of the few who actually tried to help thoughout this thread, while many others were unsympathetic or just had meaningless, childish remarks. Hats off to you sir.

Things like this do concern me. I play quite a bit and have made a confortable bit of gold over time. Often times, I'll give away green, purple or gold items to perfect strangers who are low level chars because I don't need them and gold isn't a problem for me. If Anet sees something like this, are they going to assume I sold this item on eBay? It would suck getting banned for trying to be a generous player.

Pi_Numurian · Apr 17, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

that does kind of suck